E3G

China’s Carbon emissions: John Ashton on BBC Radio

By Quentin de Molliens

SM: So, what should be we doing? Because it is not a question of blame. If it is the case, that China has overtaken America now [as] the biggest carbon dioxide polluter it’s still building … however aware it may of be the problem … it is building two coal-fired power stations, I think those are figures that came from you. One has to… try to do something?

JA: Yes well, if you take the case of coal, because coal is perhaps the biggest single piece of this jigsaw - in China, in India, in the US, also in Europe we are building coal-fired power stations - we know now how to get power from coal without putting carbon outside into the atmosphere. We have the technology; it is called carbon capture and storage. It is happening in some places. We need to do a very fast-track programme to make that the universal technology standard for burning coal, if we want to carry on burning coal.

SM: And yet, we are not though are we? We are being very slow. We could be probably leading the world on carbon capture. We are being slow - why is that?

JA: We are accelerating, and European leaders in March at their Summit took actually a pretty momentous decision to try and make Europe the world’s first low carbon economy, with carbon capture and storage as the universal standard for coal and gas by 2020, which really is a fast track. Now at the moment that’s an aspiration and we need to deliver it. But we are beginning to see how to deliver it. There is a plan to build a dozen demonstration plants over the next few years including at least one in the UK which Gordon Brown announced in the budget there is more information in the white paper about it. We are still not going fast enough, but we are accelerating, we now need to build on that. And we need to do it in collaboration with China, with India, with America, because we are all in this business together.

SM: Even at its best though, of course, it is going to put up the price of electricity by a huge amount. Who is going to pay for that? Because America is clearly reluctant, China is trying to grow its economy.

JA: Well, I think I challenge that assumption actually. At the margin, yes, energy will be more expensive than if we don’t pay attention to emissions. But I think it is becoming clear that from the analysis that’s been done by Sir Nicolas Stern for example, in his recent review of the economics of climate change, that these are bearable costs. These are not costs that are going to do enormous damage to our economies, provided we get moving quickly and provided we spread the cost in smart ways across our economies, for example by introducing a price of carbon. So you know it is becoming clear that this is not a politically impossible problem either.

SM: I know you make the point we have to live by example, and the government is launching a carbon calculator so individuals can work out their own carbon footprint and once you put it through, as I understand it, I‘ve had a look at the website this morning, it comes up with what you can do about it. But it is tiny isn’t it? When you think China is building two of these power stations every week. What difference does it make if someone switches a light bulb off?

JA: All of the choices matter. The choices that governments make, the choices that power companies building power stations make, and the choices that individual consumers make. We need to create a kind of mutually reinforcing pattern of behaviour and that starts with understanding the implications of your choices. Whether you’re a householder or whether you’re building a power station

SM: But it is quite a hard argument to make to switch off a light when somebody is building power stations on the scale they are in China.

JA: Well actually switching off lights saves you money as well, so I am not sure it is such a hard argument, but if people switch off lights then there is less demand for power from power stations and that helps.

SM: John Ashton, many thanks

JA: It is a pleasure